The evolution of CE 142 – what the flap?

The evolution of CE 142 – what the flap?  (Read 205390 times)

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I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag that was “found” in the south east corner on the 6th floor of the TSBD, referred to as the SN. For the sake of brevity I am not going to reproduce all of the testimonial statement that was present in the original thread as we should all be aware of where to find it. I would like to highlight the main points and will build on it in time.

What did the WC state?

The WC had concluded that LHO brought in his MC rifle into the TSBD in a dismantled state concealed in the bag (CE 142) on the morning of 22/11/1963.

Two people witnessed seeing LHO holding a package that morning – Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle. Despite being shown the bag and an FBI replica bag, both witnesses estimated the bag that LHO had with him that morning was between 24 – 27.5 inches. The WC rejected their conclusions believing that they were mistaken.

The disassembled MC was 34.8 inches in length, the largest part being the wooden stock.

Jack Dougherty failed to see this package on LHO as he entered into the TSBD at ~ 8 am in the morning. The WC rejected his testimony believing that he was mistaken.

No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination.

When the SN was found on the 6th floor after the assassination, six detectives failed to see the bag in the SN, yet several detectives (from the crimes scene investigation team predominantly – Day, Studebaker, Johnson, Montgomery) recalled seeing the bag in several states – folded once, folded twice, unfolded.

The bag was dusted for fingerprints using magnetic powder by Studebaker/Day and no latent finger prints were detected. Mr Day wrote on the bag twice – 39 words in total before handing the bag over to the FBI.

The bag was not photographed in situ or during a reconstruction of the crime scene. It was unsure who took ownership of the bag once it was dusted for fingerprints.

The bag was taken to the first floor (presumably with the MC rifle as well as Day stated he never left possession of it) and Mr Day and Mr Studebaker took a sample of paper and tape from the first floor (CE 677).

No one is certain what happened after that but Mr Montgomery was photographed holding a long bag coming out of the TSBD at ~ 3 pm.

This is the story describing what I believe occurred to the bag that Montgomery came out with to eventually become (“evolve”) into CE 142.

Luke Mooney – one of the first Detectives to literally step into the SN fails to see the bag on the floor

Detective Montgomery comes out with a large bag upside down and with an object inserted into it

The object within the bag can not be full length as the bag collapses down to reveal a flat and smooth top. The bag is heavily crinkled down the open end and there are no definitive crease marks to indicate that the bag was folded into a small package as was described by several of the Detectives.

Detective Johnson and Mr Day bring out more evidence found on the 6th floor

A paper and tape sample were taken by Mr Day and Mr Studebaker from the first floor

The FBI make a replica bag to show witnesses 

The paper and tape samples were taken from the first floor of the TSBD

The FBI obtained their paper and tape samples on a Sunday. When Mr Day and Mr Studebaker obtained their samples, it was likely that the employees were told to go home for the afternoon.

A bag was photographed in the FBI Crimes laboratory

Could this be the same bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD? If it was, then there was an immediate issue – this bag did not possess a flap at one end.

This bag was also photographed being in close proximity to the blanket that was recovered in the Paines garage.

The FBI stained CE 142 with silver nitrate.

A partial palm and finger print was now found on the bag that belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.

An FBI expert could not associate the bag with having carried CE 139, the MC rifle found on the 6th floor.

An FBI expert detailed how a fold was done to ensure that the bag was strong to hold a heavy object.

The FBI proved that the bag had to have been constructed in situ on the first floor because the tape had specific marking on it meaning it went through a specific tape dispenser that wetted the tape at the same time.

CE 142 matched CE 677.

The FBI sliced the bag so that both sides could be seen at the same time

What is obvious is that the bag had a flap at one end.

My analysis

Was the bag that Montgomery took out CE 142?

Yes it was.  thumbs1xx David Von Pein was correct in his statement  thumbs1xx

What was the issue if it was the same bag? 

CE 142 contains a flap that was taped down that it originally did not possess when Montgomery took it out of the TSBD.

An examination of the end flap that was missing in the FBI crimes laboratory bag

It was very likely that the original bag was folded (to add a flap) and cut to make it appear smaller.

When one considers that there was an inconsistent description of the bag when “found”, and inconsistent description on who handled it, no photograph of it, six Detectives failing to see the bag and no one knows how it ended up in Montgomery’s hands, ended up changing structure to include a flap and definitive crease lines – one is highly suspicious of whether that bag was anywhere near the 6th floor.

Mr Day and Mr Studebaker were on the first floor with the rifle and we know that they took paper and tape. If you had the rifle in your possession wouldn’t you wrap in up to conceal/protect it from the crowd outside? It was already dusted for prints by Day. Yet inexplicably Day walks out with the rifle and Montgomery walks out with the bag.

What the flap is going on?  rofl

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« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 05:20:57 AM by Tony Fratini »
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I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag that was “found” in the south east corner on the 6th floor of the TSBD, referred to as the SN. For the sake of brevity I am not going to reproduce all of the testimonial statement that was present in the original thread as we should all be aware of where to find it. I would like to highlight the main points and will build on it in time.

What did the WC state?

The WC had concluded that LHO brought in his MC rifle into the TSBD in a dismantled state concealed in the bag (CE 142) on the morning of 22/11/1963.

Two people witnessed seeing LHO holding a package that morning – Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle. Despite being shown the bag and an FBI replica bag, both witnesses estimated the bag that LHO had with him that morning was between 24 – 27.5 inches. The WC rejected their conclusions believing that they were mistaken.

The disassembled MC was 34.8 inches in length, the largest part being the wooden stock.

Jack Dougherty failed to see this package on LHO as he entered into the TSBD at ~ 8 am in the morning. The WC rejected his testimony believing that he was mistaken.

No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination.

When the SN was found on the 6th floor after the assassination, six detectives failed to see the bag in the SN, yet several detectives (from the crimes scene investigation team predominantly – Day, Studebaker, Johnson, Montgomery) recalled seeing the bag in several states – folded once, folded twice, unfolded.

The bag was dusted for fingerprints using magnetic powder by Studebaker/Day and no latent finger prints were detected. Mr Day wrote on the bag twice – 39 words in total before handing the bag over to the FBI.

The bag was not photographed in situ or during a reconstruction of the crime scene. It was unsure who took ownership of the bag once it was dusted for fingerprints.

The bag was taken to the first floor (presumably with the MC rifle as well as Day stated he never left possession of it) and Mr Day and Mr Studebaker took a sample of paper and tape from the first floor (CE 677).

No one is certain what happened after that but Mr Montgomery was photographed holding a long bag coming out of the TSBD at ~ 3 pm.

This is the story describing what I believe occurred to the bag that Montgomery came out with to eventually become (“evolve”) into CE 142.

Luke Mooney – one of the first Detectives to literally step into the SN fails to see the bag on the floor

Detective Montgomery comes out with a large bag upside down and with an object inserted into it

The object within the bag can not be full length as the bag collapses down to reveal a flat and smooth top. The bag is heavily crinkled down the open end and there are no definitive crease marks to indicate that the bag was folded into a small package as was described by several of the Detectives.

Detective Johnson and Mr Day bring out more evidence found on the 6th floor

A paper and tape sample were taken by Mr Day and Mr Studebaker from the first floor

The FBI make a replica bag to show witnesses 

The paper and tape samples were taken from the first floor of the TSBD

The FBI obtained their paper and tape samples on a Sunday. When Mr Day and Mr Studebaker obtained their samples, it was likely that the employees were told to go home for the afternoon.

A bag was photographed in the FBI Crimes laboratory

Could this be the same bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD? If it was, then there was an immediate issue – this bag did not possess a flap at one end.

This bag was also photographed being in close proximity to the blanket that was recovered in the Paines garage.

The FBI stained CE 142 with silver nitrate.

A partial palm and finger print was now found on the bag that belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.

An FBI expert could not associate the bag with having carried CE 139, the MC rifle found on the 6th floor.

An FBI expert detailed how a fold was done to ensure that the bag was strong to hold a heavy object.

The FBI proved that the bag had to have been constructed in situ on the first floor because the tape had specific marking on it meaning it went through a specific tape dispenser that wetted the tape at the same time.

CE 142 matched CE 677.

The FBI sliced the bag so that both sides could be seen at the same time

What is obvious is that the bag had a flap at one end.

My analysis

Was the bag that Montgomery took out CE 142?

Yes it was.   David Von Pein was correct in his statement

What was the issue if it was the same bag? 

CE 142 contains a flap that was taped down that it originally did not possess when Montgomery took it out of the TSBD.

An examination of the end flap that was missing in the FBI crimes laboratory bag

It was very likely that the original bag was folded (to add a flap) and cut to make it appear smaller.

When one considers that there was an inconsistent description of the bag when “found”, and inconsistent description on who handled it, no photograph of it, six Detectives failing to see the bag and no one knows how it ended up in Montgomery’s hands, ended up changing structure to include a flap and definitive crease lines – one is highly suspicious of whether that bag was anywhere near the 6th floor.

Mr Day and Mr Studebaker were on the first floor with the rifle and we know that they took paper and tape. If you had the rifle int your possession wouldn’t you wrap in up to conceal/protect it from the crowd outside? It was already dusted for prints by Day. Yet inexplicably Day walks out with the rifle and Montgomery walks out with the bag.

What the flap is going on?

Mr Fratini,   Thank you for presenting this posting.  I don’t intend to debate the entire post at this time.  My primary motive for responding is to express my gratitude to you for posting a very good photo of what the cops IMAGINED TO BE  a ““SNIPER’S NEST”  The first photo you show is CE 509 ) and it is an accurate photo of the so called “sniper’s nest” as it appeared after the shooting.  Notice the shadow being cast on the box,  by the bottom sash of the window.  ANY PHOTO WHICH SHOWS A BOX ON THE WINDOW SILL IS A FAKE

————————-

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I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag that was “found” in the south east corner on the 6th floor of the TSBD, referred to as the SN. For the sake of brevity I am not going to reproduce all of the testimonial statement that was present in the original thread as we should all be aware of where to find it. I would like to highlight the main points and will build on it in time.

What did the WC state?

The WC had concluded that LHO brought in his MC rifle into the TSBD in a dismantled state concealed in the bag (CE 142) on the morning of 22/11/1963.

Two people witnessed seeing LHO holding a package that morning – Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle. Despite being shown the bag and an FBI replica bag, both witnesses estimated the bag that LHO had with him that morning was between 24 – 27.5 inches. The WC rejected their conclusions believing that they were mistaken.

The disassembled MC was 34.8 inches in length, the largest part being the wooden stock.

Jack Dougherty failed to see this package on LHO as he entered into the TSBD at ~ 8 am in the morning. The WC rejected his testimony believing that he was mistaken.

No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination.

When the SN was found on the 6th floor after the assassination, six detectives failed to see the bag in the SN, yet several detectives (from the crimes scene investigation team predominantly – Day, Studebaker, Johnson, Montgomery) recalled seeing the bag in several states – folded once, folded twice, unfolded.

The bag was dusted for fingerprints using magnetic powder by Studebaker/Day and no latent finger prints were detected. Mr Day wrote on the bag twice – 39 words in total before handing the bag over to the FBI.

The bag was not photographed in situ or during a reconstruction of the crime scene. It was unsure who took ownership of the bag once it was dusted for fingerprints.

The bag was taken to the first floor (presumably with the MC rifle as well as Day stated he never left possession of it) and Mr Day and Mr Studebaker took a sample of paper and tape from the first floor (CE 677).

No one is certain what happened after that but Mr Montgomery was photographed holding a long bag coming out of the TSBD at ~ 3 pm.

This is the story describing what I believe occurred to the bag that Montgomery came out with to eventually become (“evolve”) into CE 142.

Luke Mooney – one of the first Detectives to literally step into the SN fails to see the bag on the floor

Detective Montgomery comes out with a large bag upside down and with an object inserted into it

The object within the bag can not be full length as the bag collapses down to reveal a flat and smooth top. The bag is heavily crinkled down the open end and there are no definitive crease marks to indicate that the bag was folded into a small package as was described by several of the Detectives.

Detective Johnson and Mr Day bring out more evidence found on the 6th floor

A paper and tape sample were taken by Mr Day and Mr Studebaker from the first floor

The FBI make a replica bag to show witnesses 

The paper and tape samples were taken from the first floor of the TSBD

The FBI obtained their paper and tape samples on a Sunday. When Mr Day and Mr Studebaker obtained their samples, it was likely that the employees were told to go home for the afternoon.

A bag was photographed in the FBI Crimes laboratory

Could this be the same bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD? If it was, then there was an immediate issue – this bag did not possess a flap at one end.

This bag was also photographed being in close proximity to the blanket that was recovered in the Paines garage.

The FBI stained CE 142 with silver nitrate.

A partial palm and finger print was now found on the bag that belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.

An FBI expert could not associate the bag with having carried CE 139, the MC rifle found on the 6th floor.

An FBI expert detailed how a fold was done to ensure that the bag was strong to hold a heavy object.

The FBI proved that the bag had to have been constructed in situ on the first floor because the tape had specific marking on it meaning it went through a specific tape dispenser that wetted the tape at the same time.

CE 142 matched CE 677.

The FBI sliced the bag so that both sides could be seen at the same time

What is obvious is that the bag had a flap at one end.

My analysis

Was the bag that Montgomery took out CE 142?

Yes it was.   David Von Pein was correct in his statement

What was the issue if it was the same bag? 

CE 142 contains a flap that was taped down that it originally did not possess when Montgomery took it out of the TSBD.

An examination of the end flap that was missing in the FBI crimes laboratory bag

It was very likely that the original bag was folded (to add a flap) and cut to make it appear smaller.

When one considers that there was an inconsistent description of the bag when “found”, and inconsistent description on who handled it, no photograph of it, six Detectives failing to see the bag and no one knows how it ended up in Montgomery’s hands, ended up changing structure to include a flap and definitive crease lines – one is highly suspicious of whether that bag was anywhere near the 6th floor.

Mr Day and Mr Studebaker were on the first floor with the rifle and we know that they took paper and tape. If you had the rifle int your possession wouldn’t you wrap in up to conceal/protect it from the crowd outside? It was already dusted for prints by Day. Yet inexplicably Day walks out with the rifle and Montgomery walks out with the bag.

What the flap is going on?

Mr Fratini….. You opened this thread with this statement…….“I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag”

But nowhere in the post do you show a   RIFLE CASED SHAPED BAG

This is not meant as criticism or to disparage your work……  What I am attempting to point out is the cops originally said that they found a gun case shapedbag in the building and that is how they believed that the dirty little back shootin, coward, commie LEE HARVEY OSSSSWALD got the rifle into the building.

But no gun case SHAPED bag was ever produced…..

Anybody who is familiar with rifles or shotguns knows that a Gun Case is  TAPERED   small at the muzzle end and bigger at the butt end.

Detective Day is on record as saying that he found such a “GUN CASE SHAPED BAG”  and picked it up and turned to Roy Truly and asked him if he had ever seen that before.   Truly said he had never seen it.     Day folded that GUN CASE SHAPED bag up and put it in his pocket, never to be seen again…….

WHY?????

————————-

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I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag that was “found” in the south east corner on the 6th floor of the TSBD, referred to as the SN. For the sake of brevity I am not going to reproduce all of the testimonial statement that was present in the original thread as we should all be aware of where to find it. I would like to highlight the main points and will build on it in time.

What did the WC state?

The WC had concluded that LHO brought in his MC rifle into the TSBD in a dismantled state concealed in the bag (CE 142) on the morning of 22/11/1963.

Two people witnessed seeing LHO holding a package that morning – Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle. Despite being shown the bag and an FBI replica bag, both witnesses estimated the bag that LHO had with him that morning was between 24 – 27.5 inches. The WC rejected their conclusions believing that they were mistaken.

The disassembled MC was 34.8 inches in length, the largest part being the wooden stock.

Jack Dougherty failed to see this package on LHO as he entered into the TSBD at ~ 8 am in the morning. The WC rejected his testimony believing that he was mistaken.

No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination.

When the SN was found on the 6th floor after the assassination, six detectives failed to see the bag in the SN, yet several detectives (from the crimes scene investigation team predominantly – Day, Studebaker, Johnson, Montgomery) recalled seeing the bag in several states – folded once, folded twice, unfolded.

The bag was dusted for fingerprints using magnetic powder by Studebaker/Day and no latent finger prints were detected. Mr Day wrote on the bag twice – 39 words in total before handing the bag over to the FBI.

The bag was not photographed in situ or during a reconstruction of the crime scene. It was unsure who took ownership of the bag once it was dusted for fingerprints.

The bag was taken to the first floor (presumably with the MC rifle as well as Day stated he never left possession of it) and Mr Day and Mr Studebaker took a sample of paper and tape from the first floor (CE 677).

No one is certain what happened after that but Mr Montgomery was photographed holding a long bag coming out of the TSBD at ~ 3 pm.

This is the story describing what I believe occurred to the bag that Montgomery came out with to eventually become (“evolve”) into CE 142.

Luke Mooney – one of the first Detectives to literally step into the SN fails to see the bag on the floor

Detective Montgomery comes out with a large bag upside down and with an object inserted into it

The object within the bag can not be full length as the bag collapses down to reveal a flat and smooth top. The bag is heavily crinkled down the open end and there are no definitive crease marks to indicate that the bag was folded into a small package as was described by several of the Detectives.

Detective Johnson and Mr Day bring out more evidence found on the 6th floor

A paper and tape sample were taken by Mr Day and Mr Studebaker from the first floor

The FBI make a replica bag to show witnesses 

The paper and tape samples were taken from the first floor of the TSBD

The FBI obtained their paper and tape samples on a Sunday. When Mr Day and Mr Studebaker obtained their samples, it was likely that the employees were told to go home for the afternoon.

A bag was photographed in the FBI Crimes laboratory

Could this be the same bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD? If it was, then there was an immediate issue – this bag did not possess a flap at one end.

This bag was also photographed being in close proximity to the blanket that was recovered in the Paines garage.

The FBI stained CE 142 with silver nitrate.

A partial palm and finger print was now found on the bag that belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.

An FBI expert could not associate the bag with having carried CE 139, the MC rifle found on the 6th floor.

An FBI expert detailed how a fold was done to ensure that the bag was strong to hold a heavy object.

The FBI proved that the bag had to have been constructed in situ on the first floor because the tape had specific marking on it meaning it went through a specific tape dispenser that wetted the tape at the same time.

CE 142 matched CE 677.

The FBI sliced the bag so that both sides could be seen at the same time

What is obvious is that the bag had a flap at one end.

My analysis

Was the bag that Montgomery took out CE 142?

Yes it was.   David Von Pein was correct in his statement

What was the issue if it was the same bag? 

CE 142 contains a flap that was taped down that it originally did not possess when Montgomery took it out of the TSBD.

An examination of the end flap that was missing in the FBI crimes laboratory bag

It was very likely that the original bag was folded (to add a flap) and cut to make it appear smaller.

When one considers that there was an inconsistent description of the bag when “found”, and inconsistent description on who handled it, no photograph of it, six Detectives failing to see the bag and no one knows how it ended up in Montgomery’s hands, ended up changing structure to include a flap and definitive crease lines – one is highly suspicious of whether that bag was anywhere near the 6th floor.

Mr Day and Mr Studebaker were on the first floor with the rifle and we know that they took paper and tape. If you had the rifle int your possession wouldn’t you wrap in up to conceal/protect it from the crowd outside? It was already dusted for prints by Day. Yet inexplicably Day walks out with the rifle and Montgomery walks out with the bag.

What the flap is going on?

Mr Fratini….. You opened this thread with this statement…….“I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag”

But nowhere in the post do you show a   RIFLE CASED SHAPED BAG

This is not meant as criticism or to disparage your work……  What I am attempting to point out is the cops originally said that they found a gun case shaped bag in the building and that is how they believed that the dirty little back shootin, coward, commie LEE HARVEY OSSSSWALD got the rifle into the building.

But no gun case SHAPED bag was ever produced…..

Anybody who is familiar with rifles or shotguns knows that a Gun Case is  TAPERED   small at the muzzle end and bigger at the butt end.

Detective Day is on record as saying that he found such a “GUN CASE SHAPED BAG”  and picked it up and turned to Roy Truly and asked him if he had ever seen that before.   Truly said he had never seen it.     Day folded that GUN CASE SHAPED bag up and put it in his pocket, never to be seen again…….

WHY??

You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, meaningless rants like the one immediately above, and like your rant about Hosty’s interrogation notes proving only to you that Oswald told Fritz and Hosty that Roy Truly displayed three rifles at the TSBD.

A week from today, at the latest, you’ll have one thousand posts under your name, in record time. Many thousands  more of your posts from now, uncoupled from reasonable analysis as your above post, will this forum be better or worse as a consequence of your worthless campaign of distraction?

How many hyperactive posters posting a flood of unsupported, twisted nonsense can a forum accomodate before it is degraded to irrelevance in comparison to its former status as a place to share research and informed opinion? At the Ed Forum, it took only a sex obsessed political partisan and a CIA apologist who never misses an opportunity to remind a dwindling readership that resigned Gen. Walker blah blah blah, all icing on the cakebread by a forum owner aplogizing to the members for not protecting Peter Janney soon enough.

Enough, but I accept that Mr. Cakebread does not understand or care what enough is, or means.

You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, meaningless rants like the one immediately above, and like your rant about Hosty’s interrogation notes proving only to you that Oswald told Fritz and Hosty that Roy Truly displayed three rifles at the TSBD.

Hmmmmm…You must be referring FBI agent James Hosty’s  hand written note that he jotted down after Lee told them that he had seen the carcano before in Mr. Truly’s office.

Quote……..” Day before yesterday Mr Truly had rifle & 2 others 1st floor outside office”…    Unquote…….

I’m sure due to your dyslexia you will interpret that in some weird fashio,n but most folks can understand what Lee Oswald told agent Hosty…….

————————-

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…………….
Mr Fratini….. You opened this thread with this statement…….“I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag”But nowhere in the post do you show a   RIFLE CASED SHAPED BAGThis is not meant as criticism or to disparage your work……  What I am attempting to point out is the cops originally said that they found a gun case shaped bag in the building and that is how they believed that the dirty little back shootin, coward, commie LEE HARVEY OSSSSWALD got the rifle into the building.

But no gun case SHAPED bag was ever produced…..

Anybody who is familiar with rifles or shotguns knows that a Gun Case is  TAPERED  small at the muzzle end and bigger at the butt end.

Detective Day is on record as saying that he found such a “GUN CASE SHAPED BAG”  and picked it up and turned to Roy Truly and asked him if he had ever seen that before.   Truly said he had never seen it.     Day folded that GUN CASE SHAPED bag up and put it in his pocket, never to be seen again…….

WHY??

You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, meaningless rants like the one immediately above, and like your rant about Hosty’s interrogation notes proving only to you that Oswald told Fritz and Hosty that Roy Truly displayed three rifles at the TSBD.

A week from today, at the latest, you’ll have one thousand posts under your name, in record time. Many thousands  more of your posts from now, uncoupled from reasonable analysis as your above post, will this forum be better or worse as a consequence of your worthless campaign of distraction?

How many hyperactive posters posting a flood of unsupported, twisted nonsense can a forum accomodate before it is degraded to irrelevance in comparison to its former status as a place to share research and informed opinion? At the Ed Forum, it took only a sex obsessed political partisan and a CIA apologist who never misses an opportunity to remind a dwindling readership that resigned Gen. Walker blah blah blah, all icing on the cakebread by a forum owner apologizing to the members for not protecting Peter Janney soon enough.

Enough, but I accept that Mr. Cakebread does not understand or care what enough is, or means.

Dear Mr Sulky, Thank you for allowing me to enlighten you……. Mr. Cakebread does not understand or care what enough is, or means.

Mr Cakebread understands very well what “ENOUGH”[/b is…….    I had enough of the BS being handed out many years ago……I’m deeply offended when someone offers me a dog turd and tells me it’s a candy bar, and then starts ridiculing me when I refuse to accept their lie.    You talk about ENOUGH!   I’ve had more than ENOUGH!!!

————————-

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…………….
Mr Fratini….. You opened this thread with this statement…….“I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag”But nowhere in the post do you show a   RIFLE CASED SHAPED BAGThis is not meant as criticism or to disparage your work……  What I am attempting to point out is the cops originally said that they found a gun case shaped bag in the building and that is how they believed that the dirty little back shootin, coward, commie LEE HARVEY OSSSSWALD got the rifle into the building.

But no gun case SHAPED bag was ever produced…..

Anybody who is familiar with rifles or shotguns knows that a Gun Case is  TAPERED  small at the muzzle end and bigger at the butt end.

Detective Day is on record as saying that he found such a “GUN CASE SHAPED BAG”  and picked it up and turned to Roy Truly and asked him if he had ever seen that before.   Truly said he had never seen it.     Day folded that GUN CASE SHAPED bag up and put it in his pocket, never to be seen again…….

WHY??

You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, meaningless rants like the one immediately above, and like your rant about Hosty’s interrogation notes proving only to you that Oswald told Fritz and Hosty that Roy Truly displayed three rifles at the TSBD.

A week from today, at the latest, you’ll have one thousand posts under your name, in record time. Many thousands  more of your posts from now, uncoupled from reasonable analysis as your above post, will this forum be better or worse as a consequence of your worthless campaign of distraction?

How many hyperactive posters posting a flood of unsupported, twisted nonsense can a forum accomodate before it is degraded to irrelevance in comparison to its former status as a place to share research and informed opinion? At the Ed Forum, it took only a sex obsessed political partisan and a CIA apologist who never misses an opportunity to remind a dwindling readership that resigned Gen. Walker blah blah blah, all icing on the cakebread by a forum owner apologizing to the members for not protecting Peter Janney soon enough.

Enough, but I accept that Mr. Cakebread does not understand or care what enough is, or means.

You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, 

What ridiculous, that’s are forums for to make post Capito Mr. Scully.

There are other forum member here that try to make other people on the forum ridiculous.

Why do you not attack them.

It is not in your LN-SOP or protocol,…. I’m sure.

Best wishes Mr. Scully.

72

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I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag that was “found” in the south east corner on the 6th floor of the TSBD, referred to as the SN. For the sake of brevity I am not going to reproduce all of the testimonial statement that was present in the original thread as we should all be aware of where to find it. I would like to highlight the main points and will build on it in time.

What did the WC state?

The WC had concluded that LHO brought in his MC rifle into the TSBD in a dismantled state concealed in the bag (CE 142) on the morning of 22/11/1963.

Two people witnessed seeing LHO holding a package that morning – Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle. Despite being shown the bag and an FBI replica bag, both witnesses estimated the bag that LHO had with him that morning was between 24 – 27.5 inches. The WC rejected their conclusions believing that they were mistaken.

The disassembled MC was 34.8 inches in length, the largest part being the wooden stock.

Jack Dougherty failed to see this package on LHO as he entered into the TSBD at ~ 8 am in the morning. The WC rejected his testimony believing that he was mistaken.

No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination.

When the SN was found on the 6th floor after the assassination, six detectives failed to see the bag in the SN, yet several detectives (from the crimes scene investigation team predominantly – Day, Studebaker, Johnson, Montgomery) recalled seeing the bag in several states – folded once, folded twice, unfolded.

The bag was dusted for fingerprints using magnetic powder by Studebaker/Day and no latent finger prints were detected. Mr Day wrote on the bag twice – 39 words in total before handing the bag over to the FBI.

The bag was not photographed in situ or during a reconstruction of the crime scene. It was unsure who took ownership of the bag once it was dusted for fingerprints.

The bag was taken to the first floor (presumably with the MC rifle as well as Day stated he never left possession of it) and Mr Day and Mr Studebaker took a sample of paper and tape from the first floor (CE 677).

No one is certain what happened after that but Mr Montgomery was photographed holding a long bag coming out of the TSBD at ~ 3 pm.

This is the story describing what I believe occurred to the bag that Montgomery came out with to eventually become (“evolve”) into CE 142.

Luke Mooney – one of the first Detectives to literally step into the SN fails to see the bag on the floor

Detective Montgomery comes out with a large bag upside down and with an object inserted into it

The object within the bag can not be full length as the bag collapses down to reveal a flat and smooth top. The bag is heavily crinkled down the open end and there are no definitive crease marks to indicate that the bag was folded into a small package as was described by several of the Detectives.

Detective Johnson and Mr Day bring out more evidence found on the 6th floor

A paper and tape sample were taken by Mr Day and Mr Studebaker from the first floor

The FBI make a replica bag to show witnesses 

The paper and tape samples were taken from the first floor of the TSBD

The FBI obtained their paper and tape samples on a Sunday. When Mr Day and Mr Studebaker obtained their samples, it was likely that the employees were told to go home for the afternoon.

A bag was photographed in the FBI Crimes laboratory

Could this be the same bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD? If it was, then there was an immediate issue – this bag did not possess a flap at one end.

This bag was also photographed being in close proximity to the blanket that was recovered in the Paines garage.

The FBI stained CE 142 with silver nitrate.

A partial palm and finger print was now found on the bag that belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.

An FBI expert could not associate the bag with having carried CE 139, the MC rifle found on the 6th floor.

An FBI expert detailed how a fold was done to ensure that the bag was strong to hold a heavy object.

The FBI proved that the bag had to have been constructed in situ on the first floor because the tape had specific marking on it meaning it went through a specific tape dispenser that wetted the tape at the same time.

CE 142 matched CE 677.

The FBI sliced the bag so that both sides could be seen at the same time

What is obvious is that the bag had a flap at one end.

My analysis

Was the bag that Montgomery took out CE 142?

Yes it was.   David Von Pein was correct in his statement

What was the issue if it was the same bag? 

CE 142 contains a flap that was taped down that it originally did not possess when Montgomery took it out of the TSBD.

An examination of the end flap that was missing in the FBI crimes laboratory bag

It was very likely that the original bag was folded (to add a flap) and cut to make it appear smaller.

When one considers that there was an inconsistent description of the bag when “found”, and inconsistent description on who handled it, no photograph of it, six Detectives failing to see the bag and no one knows how it ended up in Montgomery’s hands, ended up changing structure to include a flap and definitive crease lines – one is highly suspicious of whether that bag was anywhere near the 6th floor.

Mr Day and Mr Studebaker were on the first floor with the rifle and we know that they took paper and tape. If you had the rifle int your possession wouldn’t you wrap in up to conceal/protect it from the crowd outside? It was already dusted for prints by Day. Yet inexplicably Day walks out with the rifle and Montgomery walks out with the bag.

What the flap is going on?

Tony…..Many years ago I saw a photo of LD Montgomery with that big bag. It was taken in front of the TSBD just like the photos you have posted …..EXCEPT……  The curved handle of an umbrella could be seen in his hand.   That sack was covering an Umbrella…..

You’ve done an excellent job of exposing a key lie in the framing of Lee Oswald……

Did you notice that the small lunch sack that Detective Johnson is carrying is covered with finger print powder….But there’s not a trace of finger print powder on the large sack that Montgomery is carrying……    This suggests that the large bag was not really evidence……it was being used to cover the umbrella.

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« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 10:22:04 PM by Walt Cakebread »
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…………….
You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, What ridiculous, that’s are forums for to make post Capito Mr. Scully.There are other forum member here that try to make other people on the forum ridiculous.

Why do you not attack them.

It is not in your LN-SOP or protocol,…. I’m sure.

Best wishes Mr. Scully.

Paul, I see you are a sly one…..you’ve figured it all out. I am humbled by your comments.

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……..
You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, meaningless rants like the one immediately above, and like your rant about Hosty’s interrogation notes proving only to you that Oswald told Fritz and Hosty that Roy Truly displayed three rifles at the TSBD.
……….

You’re shaped as a forum poster, yet you flood this forum with ridiculous, meaningless rants like the one immediately above, and like your rant about Hosty’s interrogation notes proving only to you that Oswald told Fritz and Hosty that Roy Truly displayed three rifles at the TSBD.

Hmmmmm…You must be referring FBI agent James Hosty’s  hand written note that he jotted down after Lee told them that he had seen the carcano before in Mr. Truly’s office.

Quote……..” Day before yesterday Mr Truly had rifle & 2 others 1st floor outside office”…    Unquote…….

I’m sure due to your dyslexia you will interpret that in some weird fashio,n but most folks can understand what Lee Oswald told agent Hosty…….

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Name:    Rob Caprio
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…….
The pattern I see by the likes of Scully and others is that I should just accept a headstone over a ton of official documents and say, “Hey, that is wrong.” I don’t work like that, but Scully obviously does as he accepts headstones for everything. By the way, people can have anything put on headstones, they are literally written in stone but they are not 100% accurate as he claims.This is all nonsense and meant to distract from the main point of the thread and that is something the WC defenders do constantly since they can’t deal with the main point of the thread in the first place. ……

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Name:    Tom Scully
Posts:    1030 (1.813 per day)

Don’t be humbled Tom,… it is a observation of me to reality of the forum and his members, without calling names.

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Cakebread and his sidekick Paul

You see personal attack whatever how many posts.

Nutter speak, Mr. Steve Slogan.

————————-

« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 09:40:32 PM by Paul Ernst »
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Gentlemen,

it would be fabulous if we can debate the topic on hand rather than disintegrate the thread into personal attacks and insults. Please bring in your knowledge and expertise in discussing the highly contentious CE 142.

I would like to see how a bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD inherited a flap at one end. It goes to show that even after 50 years we are learning new information – there must be 100’s of photos or footage that we have not seen.

It was the bag that directly linked LHO to the MC. If the bag was NOT present in the SN, it will have massive implications for the case against LHO.  thumbs1xx

Discuss away

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A rather interesting post, Mr. Fratini, thanks for sharing it

I take away the following:

*Mr. Dougherty fails to see any package in tow when Oswald enters that morning.

*and, quote, “No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination”

Toss in your keen observations in respect to the flap, and something is clearly amiss here.

Time and time again, as with other evidence throughout this case, there never is a natural progression of evidence linking Oswald to anything as much as something else in play, by any other name remains the same.

Alan,

unfortunately we see the same MO all the time when it came to LHO – as soon as the MC was linked to him – party over – no matter what anyone observed or stated to the contrary – all roads led to LHO. End of story.

If is extremely difficult to disentangle the MC with LHO – it was that powerful, no matter where in the TSBD it was found.

So one has to carefully deconstruct the crime scene. CE 142 is a real issue because without a means of transporting in the MC – the DP had nothing, same with the FBI.

It was absolutely essential to link CE 142 with LHO. Right on cue – a finger and palm print appears after two different methods were used – magnetic powder and iodine fumes – zip. Silver nitrate worked a treat.

Considering LHO “handled” the materials to make the bag and transported it – one would have thought that the bag would have been “swimming” in finger prints. At 8 pounds you would exert some force to hold the bag. Bizarre to the max.

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Tony…..Many years ago I saw a photo of LD Montgomery with that big bag. It was taken in front of the TSBD just like the photos you have posted …..EXCEPT……  The curved handle of an umbrella could be seen in his hand.   That sack was covering an Umbrella…..

No doubt it’s being hidden in the same box as the film of Curry saying that Oswald had a coke in his hand and the film of LBJ saying “AH cum tew yew with a havy heart…..Yer president is daid”.

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Gentlemen,

it would be fabulous if we can debate the topic on hand rather than disintegrate the thread into personal attacks and insults. Please bring in your knowledge and expertise in discussing the highly contentious CE 142.

I would like to see how a bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD inherited a flap at one end. It goes to show that even after 50 years we are learning new information – there must be 100’s of photos or footage that we have not seen.

It was the bag that directly linked LHO to the MC. If the bag was NOT present in the SN, it will have massive implications for the case against LHO.

Discuss away

With all due respect Tony, if you push back against Walt’s response to your OP now, your future threads may be what you expect this
thread to be. If you let it pass, all of your future threads, and this entire forum will be as Walt intends them to be.

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………..
Mr Fratini….. You opened this thread with this statement…….“I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 – the so called rifle case shaped bag”

But nowhere in the post do you show a   RIFLE CASED SHAPED BAG

This is not meant as criticism or to disparage your work……  What I am attempting to point out is the cops originally said that they found a gun case shaped bag in the building and that is how they believed that the dirty little back shootin, coward, commie LEE HARVEY OSSSSWALD got the rifle into the building.

But no gun case SHAPED bag was ever produced…..

Anybody who is familiar with rifles or shotguns knows that a Gun Case is  TAPERED   small at the muzzle end and bigger at the butt end.

Detective Day is on record as saying that he found such a “GUN CASE SHAPED BAG”  and picked it up and turned to Roy Truly and asked him if he had ever seen that before.   Truly said he had never seen it.     Day folded that GUN CASE SHAPED bag up and put it in his pocket, never to be seen again…….

WHY??

Your choice….please choose carefully, before Walt transforms the atmosphere to where it doesn’t matter, anymore.
He exerts his influence, 21 times per day here, on average.

Tom,

this is why I posted the caveat to please remain on topic. As Walt pointed out there were many issues regarding the SN and many articles have been written about it.

The damning fact is that there was no in situ photo of the bag that Montgomery was holding in his hand in the SN. I have shown – Montgomery’s bag is indeed CE 142. David Von Pein was correct, except there now is a ton of explanations required to account for it.

We now have the photos of the “intermediate” bag – the one in the FBI crime lab. This explains, to me, what was done to the bag and why it was done.

If there is an alternative explanation – I would appreciate hearing it. CE 677 matching up with CE 142 tightens the timeline and causes even more issues. For the WC, it would of been better for the bag (CE 142) to not have matched with CE 677.  rofl

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Tony…..Many years ago I saw a photo of LD Montgomery with that big bag. It was taken in front of the TSBD just like the photos you have posted …..EXCEPT……  The curved handle of an umbrella could be seen in his hand.   That sack was covering an Umbrella…..

No doubt it’s being hidden in the same box as the film of Curry saying that Oswald had a coke in his hand and the film of LBJ saying “AH cum tew yew with a havy heart…..Yer president is daid”.

John,

the irony was, that it was very likely Montgomery that caused some scratch marks in the interior of CE 142. Since he held the bag upside sown, vital “information” could have been lost. Having the bag next to the blanket (FBI crime lab) was not a good idea as well.

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A rather interesting post, Mr. Fratini, thanks for sharing it

I take away the following:

*Mr. Dougherty fails to see any package in tow when Oswald enters that morning.

*and, quote, “No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination”

Toss in your keen observations in respect to the flap, and something is clearly amiss here.

Time and time again, as with other evidence throughout this case, there never is a natural progression of evidence linking Oswald to anything as much as something else in play, by any other name remains the same.

I believe Jack Dougherty was telling the truth about seeing no package brought in by Oswald that morning despite the repeated attempts by Mr.Ball to get him to say he did.

Nothing ever wrong with giving credit where it’s due, Mr. Pyne, and in this instance Mr. Dougherty–given his unique vantage point over Ball’s slant tilt–simply chose to tell the truth.

Now that whole flap issue pointed out by Mr. Fratini raises even more concerns here.

Not trying to derail this thread but between BWF and JD’s testimony,one of them is lying about the package,they both can’t be right can they?
I apologize if this has been covered in a previous thread/topic.

There was always the possibility that what ever LHO brought in may have been left in the Northern Annex prior to entering into the first floor. However if he was carrying in his lunch he may of had it tucked into his jacket. However, trying to conceal the bag that Montgomery was carrying – that is another story.

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A rather interesting post, Mr. Fratini, thanks for sharing it

I take away the following:

*Mr. Dougherty fails to see any package in tow when Oswald enters that morning.

*and, quote, “No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination”

Toss in your keen observations in respect to the flap, and something is clearly amiss here.

Time and time again, as with other evidence throughout this case, there never is a natural progression of evidence linking Oswald to anything as much as something else in play, by any other name remains the same.

I believe Jack Dougherty was telling the truth about seeing no package brought in by Oswald that morning despite the repeated attempts by Mr.Ball to get him to say he did.

Nothing ever wrong with giving credit where it’s due, Mr. Pyne, and in this instance Mr. Dougherty–given his unique vantage point over Ball’s slant tilt–simply chose to tell the truth.

Now that whole flap issue pointed out by Mr. Fratini raises even more concerns here.

Not trying to derail this thread but between BWF and JD’s testimony,one of them is lying about the package,they both can’t be right can they?
I apologize if this has been covered in a previous thread/topic.

There was always the possibility that what ever LHO brought in may have been left in the Northern Annex prior to entering into the first floor. However if he was carrying in his lunch he may of had it tucked into his jacket. However, trying to conceal the bag that Montgomery was carrying – that is another story.

Thank you Mr.Fratini for your input on this issue of BWF vs. JD’s testimony of whether LHO actually entered the TSBD with a long package.
Not knowing the layout of the building,Iv’e always wondered if there was a place Oswald could have stashed the package just inside before being seen by Dougherty.
I guess you’re saying there was such a place?

Definitely – there were two annexes – one on the Northern end and one on the Western end. These were covered spaces. BWF saw LHO enter at the back, he didn’t see what LHO did with what he was carrying. Dougherty “caught a glimpse” of LHO as he entered. I think it would have been highly unlikely that he “missed” seeing the bag that Montgomery came out with in LHO’s hand. Keep that in mind – CE 142 does NOT look like the bag that Montgomery originally took out of the TSBD. It has distinct fold marks, it devoid of creases at the base and now contains a taped flap. However Montgomery’s bag is indeed CE 142  thumbs1xx It has specific identifying marks on it.

Once LHO had entered into the first floor of the TSBD – not one person saw him with any package that day.

————————-

« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 12:04:49 AM by Tony Fratini »

Erasing the past to protect a fairytale : Post 1 – Reply 6

(This series, by Arjan Hut, has suddenly gone missing. It deserves a better fate)
« on: September 01, 2015, 04:45:10 PM »
 By Arjan Hut

How many files, documents and other pieces of evidence relevant to the JFK assassination have been misplaced, lost or destroyed?

It would be nice to have a list of such missing items.
Who was responsible for those items, who or what obscured them?

The temple of Bel, ‘ruined’ by time over centuries, destroyed completely by tyrants on the last day of August 2015.
According to some experts this was because there should be no evidence of any reality beyond ISIL’s world view.

List of missing items mentioned in this thread so far (in order of appearance, list will be updated regularly, AJH.)

1.  Robert Croft’s fourth photo: FBI claims the camera malfunctioned, came back as a blank.

2.  In January 1995, the Secret Service destroyed presidential protection survey reports for some of President Kennedy’s trips in the fall of 1963.

3.  The tape of Lee Harvey Oswald calling the Soviet embassy in Mexico City.

4.  John F. Kennedy’s brain.

5.  “Unidentified kid”’s pictures. Patrolman Stavis Ellis reported that a kid was taking pictures all the way from Love Field to Parkland. He added that an SS agent at Parkland took away his film, exposed it to light, and kicked it off.

6.  The note / letter delivered by Lee Oswald to FBI-agent James Hosty. Gordon Shanklin ordered it’s destruction two days after Oswald’s death.

7.  The pointy nosed bullet found by Darrel Tomlinson on a stretcher at Parkland.

8.  The intact version of the surveillance photo of Edward Walker’s residence.

9.  The trajectory of the bullet(s) going through Kennedy. Why wasn’t the backwound properly probed? Why wasn’t the neck dissected?

10. Oswald’s CIA files prior to December 1960.

11. The negatives of two of the three Backyard Photo’s, namely 133A and 133C.

12. The part of the Lopez Report concerning Oswald and the CIA.

13. The original air force one tape, a recording of radio communications to and from Air Force One on November 22, 1963

14. The files of William King Harvey

15. David Atlee Phillips’s operational files

16. The files of Anne Goodpasture

17. Files on the interrogation of Yuri Nosenko

18. Howard Hunt’s operational files

19. The files of David Sanchez Morales

20. The files of George Joannides

21. The full CIA Inspector General’s Survey Report for 1964

22. Lee Oswald’s W-2s

23. The tissue slides of the wound margins prepared after the autopsy of President Kennedy

24. Jar containing two bullet fragments from Kennedy’s brain.

25. The file cabinet mentioned by Buddy Walthers containing, “records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers”.

26. The lunch bag and soda bottle from 6.th floor that got destroyed by DPD.

27. The handwritten draft of Oswald’s ‘comrade Kostin’ letter to the Soviet Embassy.

28. The surveillance photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico.

29. Camera original of the Nix film.

30. The missing Mexico City transcript.

31. The “Pitzer Film”.

32. The photographs of Kennedy’s brain by John Thomas Stringer.

33. Several frames from the Towner film. (Corresponding frames from the Hughes film are damaged.)

34. The autopsy notes of Commander James J. Humes.

35. The first draft of the autopsy rapport by commander James J. Humes.

36. Photo’s remembered by Dr Boswell that went missing before the 1966 inventory.

37. Dr. Pierre Finck’s handwritten notes taken during the autopsy.

38. Another version of the autopsy report predating the report in the National Archives.

39. The casket that had been used to transfer JFK’s body from Dallas to Washington.

40. The Harper Fragment

41. Missing logs and production from the photobase LILYRIC (RE: Missing Mexico City Surveillance photo’s)

42. Lee Harvey Oswald’s army intelligence file.

43. Dorothy Kilgallen’s folder of JFK-assassination files.

44. Henry McCluskey’s letter to the Warren Committee.

45. 7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/63, “determined of no value and destroyed”.

46. Photo of (nearly whole) bullet allegedly removed from President Kennedy’s body.

47. George de Mohrenschildt’s CIA affiliate personnel file. Destroyed in November 1964.

48. Mary Moorman Photograph #4

49. Norman Similas’ negatives presented to Toronto Telegram.

50. The original and complete Alyea Film

51. Marvin Wise’s handwritten note with the id’s of two of the three arrested tramps.

52. Large skull fragment from limo.

53. Texas Department of Public Safety records Intelligence file on Oswald (RE: Military Intelligence file on Oswald, RE: Mexico City-tapes and photographs)

54. Photographs and notes taken by James W. Powell.

55. Wallet found at site of Tippit shooting.

56. Three rolls of film (210 photographs) containing items from Oswald’s possessions.

57. Five bullet fragments from Connally’s wounds.

58. Wallet belonging to Oswald returned to Marina Oswald by the Secret Service.

59. Original TV broadcasts and press conferences from the Dallas doctors describing the president’s wounds.

60. Records of the 18 September 1964 Warren Commission meeting.

61. Buell Wesley Frazier’s polygraph-results (“The phantom polygraph”)

62. The emergency codebook on SAM 86972, the Tokyo flight

63. Emergency codebooks on Strategic Air Command bombers on 22-11-1963.

64. Salinger’s copy of transcript of Air Force One radio communications

65. One pink pillbox hat

66. Joint Chiefs of Staff Message 3675.

67. Sales records for Mannlicher Carcano Rifle-C2766.

68. Over 39,000 files from James Jesus Angleton’s  secret collection.

69. E. Howard Hunt’s private (Kennedy) documents

70. A copy of the Mexico City tape, allegedly featuring Oswald’s voice, from Win Scott’s safe.

71. Copies of surveillance photographs,  alledgedly showing Oswald, from Win Scott’s safe.

72. Four chapters from the manuscript of Win Scott’s autobiography

73. 14 minute audio recording of Hoover – LBJ phonecall on 23-11-1963

74. The original bullet fragment retrieved from the scene of the Walker shooting

75. Adele Edisen’s original 1963 FBI testimony

76. Hoovers private, sensitive files on Lyndon Johnson

77. Missing autopsy photograph: The ‘Probes’ Photo

78. United States Marine Corps Special Investigations Team report on Oswald in San Diego and Japan

79. Office of Naval Intelligence files on Oswald

80. The interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald

81. Six or seven pre-autopsy color slides of pre-autopsy post mortem images of the president

82. Four or five black and white prints of pre-autopsy post mortem images of the president

83. “The original windshield”

84. Records of “the Chicago Plot”

85.  JFK White House tape recordings post November 8, 1963

86.  Henry Earl Palmers registration book with the signature of Lee H. Oswald

87.  National Security Action Memo approving “Project Four Leaves”

88.  CIA documents related to the CIA study of the Valkyrie plot that was to be used against Castro, as mentioned in the Higgins Memo

89.  Bullet slug (or piece of skull) picked up by (unidentified) agent in Dealey Plaza

90.  Forrest Sorrels’ notebook

91.  Arnold Rowland’s signed statements of November 26th , 29th , December 1st and 3rd or 4th

92.  One TSDP sixth floor hammer

93.  Sandra Styles’ FBI interview

94.  Record of testimony Dorothy Garner

95.  Pennsylvanian piece of paper connecting Oswald, Ruby

96.  Miscellaneous materials in private collections (part one: Francis Adams)

97.  Jim Hood photograph

98.  One piece of scalp

99.  FBI report on Hardee incident

100. Agent Quigley’s interrogation notes

101. Vial containing part of JFK brain

102. Five or six entire file cabinets of Secret Service JFK assassination related material

103. The license number of the getaway car reported by Tom Tilson

104.  “Numerous depositions before the Church Committee”

105. Church Committee’s interviews with CIA officials about “JM/WAVE”

106. Small snapshot showing Oswald and company in Clinton, Louisiana

107.  “FBI telex of November 17, 1963”

108.  Contact / debriefing rapport on U.S. defector who had lived in Minsk

109.  Guy Banister’s FPCC-file on Oswald’s activities

110. The written record of Sergeant Patrick Dean’s polygraph test

111. Bullet fragment from the floor of the limousine

112. Bullet particles from the limousine’s windshield

113.  Dallas curbing sample

114. Medical notes of Dr. Mikhailina

115. CAP squadron records of Captain Dave Ferrie’s Patrol

116. Hardway memo on Bill Harvey

117. One suspicious diagram of Dealey Plaza

118.  “The Bomb”

119.  FBI’s Pena files

120.  One CIA “Y”-file on Clay Shaw

121.    FBI New Orleans office’s 105 files on Oswald

122.    FBI New Orleans office’s 134 files on Oswald

123.   “Lee Oswald” & “Warren de Brueys” security file

124.  One page from Oswald’s address book

125.  The Mike Howard tapes

126.  “Ferrie’s library card” or Oswald’s New Orleans library card

127.  Oswald’s Defense Department identity card

128.  One Skaggs-slide  (Miscellaneous materials in private collections, part two)

129.  FBI ‘137’ files and Number TK files containing underlying info Peck & Crawford memo’s

130.  Copies of documents obtained from the New York authorities relating to LHO and his family history

131.  “119 (after-action) reports” regarding Oswald

132.  One ten page encoded teletype

133.  NSA copies of CIA Mexico City files concerning “Oswald” visit

134.  FBI radio log for 11/22/63

135.  Informant files for the Marina Oswald wiretap

136.  Unencoded 1963 Cuban operational files

137.  Allen Dulles’s unredacted 1963 calendar

138.  One list of Texas Theater patrons

139.  Weisberg’s taped interview with Jones Printing Co. employees

140.  SA Robert Frazier’s custody cards and notes detailing the deliverance of “The Magic Bullet” CE399

141.  Audio / video of Malcolm Perry press conference

142.  CIA cables concerning Oswald in the Cuban embassy

143.  The 22-11-63 Stemmons Freeway Sign

144.  Tippit’s clipboard

145.  Notes and materials of Joachim Joesten ( Miscellaneous materials in private collections, part 3)

146.  One Coke bottle

147.  Francis O’Neill’s contemporaneous autopsy notes

148.  Miscellaneous materials in private collections, part 4: Captain Michael D. Groves’ mementos

149.  G. Wray Gill’s November 1963 office phone bill

150.  Records of the threat against Kennedy in Tampa Bay

151.   CIA files on William Gaudet

152.   24-11-1963 statement of Sergeant Don Flusche

153.   The original birth certificate of Lee Harvey Oswald

154.  Complete record of hearings of the fourth floor witnesses

155.   Remaining pages of Community Service Society Rapport on Oswald

156.  FBI rapports relating to Ruth and Michael Paine

157.   FBI recordings of Ruth Paine wiretap

158.  FBI rapports relating to George and Jeanne de Mohrenschildt

159.   One movie of Cuban exile training camp

160.  168 passages from “The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence”

161.  Background on Thomas Arthur Vallee’s licence plate

162.  Oswald’s original NY school records

163.  Oswald’s original NY court records

164.  Oswald’s original NY psychiatric records

165.  “History of the Counterintelligence Staff 1954–1974”

166.  Frank Sturgis’ 4-4-75 Rockefeller Commission testimony

167.  Rockefeller Commission interview with Judd McIlvain

168.  Marguerite Oswald’s IRS returns

169.  Oswald’s original Beauregard School Records

170.  The original Wiegman film

171.  The original Darnell film

172.  The original Couch film

173.  Tax returns for mystery Smith couple

174.  The original Daniël film

175.  Dealey Plaza sequence of Craven film

176.  Rockefeller Commission Tape of conversation with McGeorge Bundy

177.  Tape of interview with Robert McNamara and General Maxwell Taylor

178.  Two photographs by Carolyn Klein (?)

179.  Parts of the testimony of James Martin

180.  Tapes of Rockefeller Commission interview with Will Wilson

181.  Tape of Rockefeller Commission interview with William piffle. Harvey

182.  123-page CIA file on William King Harvey’s Operations

183.  The complete Albert Schweitzer College file on Oswald

184.  One out of place library card

185.   Oswald’s (unobliterated) Defense Department identity card

186.   Tape of interview of Colonel Sheffield Edwards

187.   Jim MacCammon Dealey Plaza photos

188.   25-11-1963 FBI interview with Myra DaRouse

189.    The personal notes of Clint Hill

190.    Two Houston street photos

191.   “Bob Jackson’s Houston Street Picture”

192.    Rental records of 126 Exchange Place New Orléans

193.    Oswald’s Stripling School Records

194.   “One  Jim McCammon arrest photo”

195.    Original payroll records of Lee Harvey Oswald’s employment at Pfisterer Dental Lab

196.    The photographs taken by congressman Henry González

197.    “Dozens of Tujague Company payroll checks”

198.    Julio Fernandez’ photographs and tape recordings of Lee Harvey Oswald

199.  “Knoll shooter” crime scene photographs & possible physical evidence

200.   JFK autopsy face sheets

201.  Six page 22-11-1963 longhand letter containing testimony of Victoria Adams

202.  One barrel swab

203.  Evidence Oswald bought ammunition for his MC

204.  Evidence Oswald practised with his MC

205.  All of the W.C. stenographic tapes made on April 7, 1964

206.  “One US Customs authentication file”

207.  Documents relating to LHO’s employment at J.piffle. Michaels

208.  Work permits for underage Lee Harvey Oswald

209.  Records relating to 1970 assault on Hale Boggs

210.  Blakey notes from informant files

211.  Records of Reeves Morgan Phonecall to FBI

212.  Lee Harvey Oswald’s Louisiana State Hospital application

213.  “Oswald’s” knife and bar slip signed ‘Hidell’

214.  “The journal of Roscoe White”

215.   Preparation materials and the memorandum on Dan Hardway’s interview with David Atlee Phillips

216.   (CIA Vaughn Index) Document number 1199978, an 8/17/1978 HSCA Memo for the Record ‘Reinvestigation of Third Party’.

217.  (CIA Vaughn Index) Document number 1161490, George Joannides 9/20/1978 Fitness Report

218.  (CIA Vaughn Index) Document number 1153249,  Form Discussing Intelligence Methods re Joannides

219.  (CIA Vaughn Index) Document number 1161488, another (undated) George Joannides Fitness Report

220.  (CIA Vaughn Index) Document number 1153248, another (undated)  Form Discussing Intelligence Methods re Joannides

221.   “The bulk material in one diplomatic pouch”

222.   The sworn (HSCA) testimony of Orest Pena

223.   CIA op files on Richard Snyder

224.   Documentation of the AM/LASH plot

225.   David Ferrie’s original statements to the FBI

226.   The missing content from Oswald’s 201 file

227.   CIA file Boris Tarasoff – official personnel file

228.   Some 15 HSCA tapes of interviews with Boris and Anna Tarasoff

229.  CIA file on Ross Lester Crozier

230.  CIA file on James Walton Moore

231.  08/09/1978 HSCA deposition of David E. Murphy

232.   Governor Connally’s bloody suit

233.  “The AJ Hidell warning letter”

234.  CIA OP files on B. N. Hidalgo

235.  “transcript of inter-vehicle radio channel”

236.  “The Ruby message note”

237.   Presidential limousine SX-100

238.   “The military records of Knoll Shooter John Christian”

239.   The O’Reilly-slug

240.   Arrest records compiled for the Warren Commission

241.   “The DePugh sabot”

242.   The Kinsley bullet

243.   The identity of “279”

244.   One pregnant witness

245.   The Rotterdam American Express Folder on the Oswalds

246.   The Oswald exhumation videotape

247.   Stenographic notes and tapes of James C. Cadigan’s deposition

248.   Box of documents linking Oswald, Ruby, Castro

249.   A bunch of Texas, Nevada, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, New York, Washington, Miami, and New Orleans Phone Records

250.   Part three of postal form 1039

251.   Spectrographic test results of (magic) bullet fragments

252.   The bullet fragments from John Connally’s wrist

253.   Frank Sturgis’ 75.000 page FBI file

254.   The Kassab Report

255.   Blood samples and spinal fluid from Ferrie autopsy

256.   Diary and related papers of Mary Meyer

257.   Philip Buchen’s 15 page report on CIA’s clandestine anti-castro activities

258.   Prepared testimony of mr. Tennent H. Bagley

259.   Sergio Arcacha Smith’s map of Dealey Plaza sewer system

260.   Richard C. Nagell’s registered letter to J. Edgar Hoover

261.   Richard C. Nagell’s letter to James Rowley

262.   FBI reports (allegedly) mentioning Rosselli / Ruby meeting

263.   Most items found in Richard C. Nagell’s trunk after his arrest in September 1963

264.   Property report & first page of FBI report concerning items belonging to Richard Case Nagell

265.   Photograph of Oswald & Nagell in New Orleans

266.   Tape recording featuring Nagell, Oswald, “Angel” and “Leopoldo”

267.   FBI SA Todd’s initials on CE399

268.   November 1962 strip sheets of Lynn D. Curry

269.   Court Records (and two back-up films) of U.S. vs Landesberg

270.   The identity of the policeman who told Will Fritz that Oswald lived on Beckley St.

271.   The names, addresses and telephone numbers of persons in automobiles in the parking lots around the Texas School Book Depository, and the licenses numbers of unoccupied automobiles in those parking lots taken later in the afternoon

272.   The rent receipts for any place Oswald lived on his own in 1962 and 1963

273.    “JFK details from Murder One”

274.    CIA/JCS study of Valkyrie Plot

275.    Files indicating that Oswald had training in the Russian language

276.    The Marina Oswald Tapes

277.    The source of the 12.45 suspect description

278.    Another ‘ghost’ source

279.    The KGB Tapes

280.    National Photo Interpretation Center (NPIC) records related to the assassination

281.    NPIC official history (including passage about Zapruder film at NPIC)

282.    The PATHFINDER Files

283.    Walker Reports from the Dallas City/County Investigation Laboratory

284.    “Mrs. Beck’s 16mm color film”

285.    The original data used for the Neutron Activation Analysis (NAA) of the ballistics evidence

286.    Counter Intelligence Operation involving Priscilla Johnson

287.    The recipient of pouch 234

288.    Another ghost source (2)

289.    “The Gordon Arnold film”

290.     The photograph & identity of Jack Harrison’s Babushka Lady

291.     The identity and photographs of the “Babushka Lady”

292.     Beverly Oliver’s Super 8 Yashica color movie of the assassination

293.      “The Ralph Simpson movie”

294.     Records of 22 January 1964 meeting WC

295.     A study of Babushka’s feet

296.     Beverly’s Babushka camera

297.     Document concerning Regis Kennedy

298.     Most Texas Employment Commission records relating to Oswald

299.     “The Estes Tapes”

300.    One five foot tall KGB file on Oswald

301.    “The Edward Bray film”

302.     Unknown woman’s pictures of ‘sniper’s window’

303.     Moving pictures from upper window Dal Tex Building

304.     Sally Sedgwick Holt’s TSDB shot

305.     Gloria Wilson’s diary

306.     The Posner/Bugliosi copper jacket

307.      Nix-film chain of custody index

308.     Passport and visa records on F. Mark Wyatt

309.     X-Ray showing trail of metal particles

310.     Autopsy photo’s processed by Saundra K. Spencer

311.    Oswald’s envelope to Klein Sporting Goods

312.    Klein’s microfilm records

313.    The bottom part of Oswald’s original Interstate Claims Card

314.    Federal Bureau of Narcotics files on Jack Ruby

315.    Another ghost source  (3)

316.    Oswald’s notebook with details-maps, photographs, sketches, bus schedules & notes of his effort to kill Walker

317.    One original J.R. Michels payroll check

318.    Antonio Veciana’s routing and record sheet

319.    “More than half of the records of the Garrison inquiry”

320.    The Aldredge bullet mark

321.    FBI report with Seymour Weitzman’s detailed description of the rifle found

322.    Aline Mosby’s handwritten 1959 Oswald interview notes

323.    The identity of the person who signed Oswald’s name on the Atomic Museum register

324.    The James A. Hawkins Files

325.    Lee Harvey Oswald’s Texas driver’s licence

326.     One “Vial, Hamilton, Koch & Knox”-file on Jack Ruby

327.     One portion of (partially eaten?) fried chicken

328.     A pack of cigarettes

329.     Another ghost source (4)

330.     A 221-page file of long-secret CIA documents about June Cobb

331.    Original application forms for boxes 2915 and 6225 in Dallas and box 30061 in New Orleans

332.     The original of ‘Holmes Exhibit No. 5’

333.     74 page transcript of James Angleton’s Church Committee testimony

334.     The identity of the ‘Dogwood Motel caller’

335.     Critical part of James Martin’s statement to the Warren Commission

336.    Southwestern Bell records showing calls between Ruby & Oswald

337.     The whereabouts of three TSBD employees during the shooting

338.    Records of Oswald’s 30 minute 23-11-1963 phonecall

339.    Ten feet of CIA Mexico City surveillance film

340.   Identity of male witness near pickup truck behind Texas Theater

341.   Identity of man seen taken out of the rear of the Texas Theater

342.    Original and duplicate of essential Flecha Rosa bus manifests

343.    Oswald’s military orders from the Marines

344.    One 4K high res scan of the Towner film

345.   Critical part of James Martin’s statement to the Warren Commission (2)

346.   Photograph given to SA John Fain by Marguerite Oswald

347.   The postmark on Oswald’s letter to Connally

348.   The sworn testimony of numerous persons of interest (I)

349.   Documents related to the Bay of Pigs-invasion

350.   Volume 5 of Oswald’s Office of Security files

351.   Who told Tennent Bagley about killer comrade Kostikov?

352.   The identity of one Freer, Texas waitress

353.   SA Tom Shipman’s death certificate

354.   Papers compiled by crypto-code operator Eugene Dinkin foretelling a military plot against JFK

355.   FBI follow-up on names mentioned by Dinkin

356.   Eugene Dinkin’s registered letter to RFK

357.   The identity of Dinkin’s Defense Department visitor at the CID detention center

358.   Operational files on David Atlee Phillips dated between 1961 and 1965

359.   FBI File 105-2137

360.   Two men sighting in a rifle

361.   The number JD Tippit dialed at the Top Ten record Store

362.   Oswald’s application for Soviet citizenship

363.   The original of Oswald’s diary

364.   One Berlin stamp

365.   Oswald’s fingerprints taken off the rifle, the paper bag, and cartons at the TSBD

366.   Photo of Oswald’s palmprint

367.   One unidentified TSBD 6th floor palmprint

« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 05:04:35 PM
by Arjan Hut
 »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Erasing the past to protect a fairytale
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2015, 05:12:31 PM »
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How many files, documents and other pieces of evidence have been misplaced or destroyed by the CIA, FBI and Secret Service?
Why destroy history?
What would have happened if people, if we, could have read and seen what was once there?

It would be nice to have a list. Or compile a list, together, and publish it – or wallpaper Langley with it.

The temple of Bel, destroyed by tyrants yesterday.

Yeah. I just bet the Temple of Bel topped your priority list yesterday.

Obscure agency documents led to the Croft photo and Charles L. Bronson 8mm film and color slides.

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Re: Erasing the past to protect a fairytale
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2015, 06:11:00 PM »

Good one, Jerry.

1. Robert Croft’s fourth photo

FBI claims the camera malfunctioned, came back as a blank.

Robert Croft’s third photo:

« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 09:07:08 AM
by Arjan Hut
 »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Erasing the past to protect a fairytale
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2015, 07:52:16 PM »

Falsifying the past in service of radical anti-American beliefs is also wrong. Or to smear innocent people.

Which is what some conspiracy believers do too often. Look at the leading conspiracists: Jim Garrison, Mark Lane, Oliver Stone.

Those three men were and are simply, to be blunt, dishonest to the core. Garrison’s case against Shaw was a fraud. And yet the conspiracy crowd thinks they are heroes. Please.

If you hate American, fine, feel free to criticize her; but don’t use this tragedy to promote your hatred.

Again: not all conspiracists are this way. Many are sincerely grieved by what they think happened. I applaud you; really. But unfortunately your voice gets drowned out by those with political goals in mind.

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Re: Erasing the past to protect a fairytale
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2015, 08:05:47 PM »
All I’m asking for is a list (or help in compiling one) of missing or destroyed evidence. Material that existed, could clarify matters one way or the other, but is gone.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Erasing the past to protect a fairytale
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2015, 10:05:23 PM »
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Good one, Jerry.

* Robert Croft’s fourth photo: FBI claims the camera malfunctioned, came back as a blank.

Robert Croft’s third photo:

Not a “claim”. It’s what was found.

The FBI didn’t make the camera malfunction. They didn’t know:

– Kennedy was going to be assassinated;

– Robert Croft was going to be there with a camera.

Croft himself was never specific: “I can’t tell you at this point anything about the shots, numbers, or where they were.”

A 1963 report on Croft has him thinking one of his pictures was taken simultaneously with a shot (the FBI put it this way: “Croft believed the last picture taken by him was taken simultaneously with the shot which killed the President.”)

In other words, the idea that the blank slide was simultaneous with the head shot is how the FBI characterized it, not necessarily how Croft actually stated it. His third photo does coincide with the first shot, hence the association with a photo and a shot. Croft was in no position to take a photo of the head shot.

Even Trask tied the fourth photo to the blank, based on how the FBI erroneously characterized what Croft described. Of course, there’s no convincing chumps otherwise.

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Re: Erasing the past to protect a fairytale
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 08:34:27 AM »

2.   Presidential protection survey reports for President Kennedy’s trips in the fall of 1963

“…In January 1995, the Secret Service destroyed presidential protection survey reports for some of President Kennedy’s trips in the fall of 1963. The Review Board learned of the destruction approximately one week after the Secret Service destroyed them, when the Board was drafting its request for additional information. The Board believed that the Secret Service files on the President’s travel in the weeks preceding his murder would be relevant.”

From the ARRB’s final report.

SEPTEMBER 24, 1963

“It is interesting to note,” wrote Doug Horne, the chief military investigator for the Assassinations Records Review Board (ARRB), in a memo (dated April 16, 1996), that three events — Oswald’s departure from New Orleans…Angel–Leopoldo visit to Sylvia Odio in Dallas,…and the Oswald visits to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City all occur immediately after un-named White House sources report to the press that on September 24, 1963 a final decision was made to visit Texas on a 2-day trip scheduled for Nov. 21–22, 1963…The Secret Service Protective Survey Reports…which were destroyed in 1995, commence with trip files starting on this same date: September 24, 1963.”

(Bill Kelly)



Secret Service agents (l-r) Clint Hill, Roy Kellerman, and Bill Greer

« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 01:25:08 PM
by Arjan Hut
 »

2017 NARA Document Dump search tips – thanks to Jeff Morley @ jfkfacts.org

Where to find the smoking gun: in the 30,000 JFK documents that remain secret

 iCONECT offers searchable database of new JFK files

http://jfkfacts.org/search-new-jfk-files-2/
The Mary Ferrell Foundation does what the U.S. media organizations and the U.S. government
apparently cannot: creates a searchable database of 58 new JFK files that have never been made public before. (h/t Rex)
Source: Formerly withheld-in-full documents released on October 26, 2017

New batch of JFK assassination files illuminate CIA’s interest in Oswald

Are we there yet? Part II

© 2017  jfkforum.com

The Danville Register from Danville, Virginia on September 8, 1968 …
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/5939652/

Troth Is Announced Of Miss Williams, Henry C. Hurt Jr. Mr. and Mrs. George … Margaret Nolting, to Henry Charles Hurt Jr., of Kennebunkport, Maine, son of Mr…..

In 1977, Henry Hurt, son in law of brother of Freeport Sulphur chairman, Langbourne M. Williams Jr…… informs Billy Joe Lord that Jim Beamiss, actually fitting the description of Fitzgerald Bemiss, is exerting pressure to result in Lord granting an interview to Henry Hurt and Readers Digest. https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=65388323

Fitzgerald Bemiss was the son of Prescott Bush Kennebunkport friend and neighbor Sam Bemiss. Sam’s mom was a sister of Langbourne M. Williams Jr’s grandfather. Sam Bemiss mother.:
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=88850510

https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963&relPageId=175

Tom Scully on July 20, 2017, 07:42:12 PM

……..
Priscilla Johnson fully inserted herself into Marina’s life by late July, 1964, as Katya and Declan Ford did the hand off to Priscilla. Priscilla’s CIA handler was Garrison Garry Coit. Coit and Thomas Devine and 15 other Sigma Chi frat brothers cohabited in their frat house on MIT campus from fall, 1944. Coit went to Naval radio school in late Sept., Devine followed two weeks later.

Devine had nine contacts with DeMohrenschildt from late April, 1963 through late May. Devine and his close friend Joseph F Dryer, Jr. met separately with DeMohrenschildt and Clemard Charles on 25 April, 1963.

In late Sept., 1964, Priscilla put herself and Marina under the domicile and hospitality of her first cousin David C. Davenport, later described by Sam Ballen as a former CIA man. Davenport’s obit refers to his intelligence work.
In December, 1964, news and FBI reports describe Marina and Priscilla residing in a Sedona, AZ apartment, transported and escorted by Jerome Hastings, close friend of Davenport, driving Davenport’s Corvair with Alaska plates. In July, 1965, Davenport and Hastings are sued in New Mexico by Hasting’s step-daughter, JoAnn McAdams,
first cousin of presidential assistant Clark Clifford. The suit describes Hastings as then second husband of Clifford’s aunt, Marguerite Bowman McAdams Hasty. In 1966, Jerome Hasty legally changed his name in New Mexico to Hastings.

At this link, I have documented that in 1978 HSCA counsel asked Priscilla Johnson Macmillan why her book, “Marina and Lee” was delayed at least a dozen years. See http://archive.is/esTuB
One excuse Priscilla offered was that she had experienced a bad period in which her father was a concealed suicide.
The last person reported to see Priscilla’s father Stuart alive and who reported him as missing to Locust Valley, LI police was James A. Thomas, a cousin of Allen Dulles whose sister Eleanor Lansing Thomas was maid of honor in Clover Dulles’s wedding.

 

http://www.findagrav…&GRid=102334174

Louise Wolcott Hooker Dodge – First cousin of Senator Jay (John D IV) Rockefeller’s grandfather Elon Huntington Hooker, and grandmother of Thomas J. Devine.

https://sigmachi.mit.edu/docs/beaver_sigs/1946_bsig_vol1946_no1.pdf‎

PriscillaCoitDevineSigmaChiFall1944_46Is

 

Students Don Ear Muffs to Shut Out Band Music
Daily Boston Globe – Aug 14, 1947

… rhumba music yesterday asked the Boston Licensing Board to shut down
the Hotel … one of 16 Tech students livings in the adjoining Sigma Chi
fraternity house
… Other student were Thomas Devine of Rochester who
told of taking refuge in ..

 

[PDF]

Spring 2009 – Beaver Sig – Sigma Chi Fraternity, Alpha

we visited Barbara Coit, the recent widow of another Alpha Theta Sig,. Garry Coit ’46, who died in February. 2008.”

Lawsuit over little bridge still cutts wide chasm in Shore town

articles.baltimoresun.com/…/1992213129_1_boone-c…‎

The Baltimore Sun

Jul 31, 1992 – … opposing the bridge are Mr. Becker, a retired aviation lawyer; L. Garry and Barbara M. Coit, two former Central Intelligence Agency officials; .

 

http://www.maryferre…706&relPageId=3

PARTIAL CONTACT REPORT ON MEETING WITH PRISCILLA JOHNSON 30-31 JAN 196 pg 1
WITH PRISCILLA JOHNSON 30-31 JAN 196 N 3/3/1964 COIT GARRY

 

CIA FROM GARRY TO PRISCILLA TITLE LETTER RE
RIF#: 104-10135-10090   (03/02/65)   CIA#: 80T01357A

LETTER, “I AM TRANSFERRING TO ANOTHER SECTION” AND GIVING NAME OF ANOTHER PERSON TO CONTACT IN THE FUTURE pg 1
Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 49
ORIGINATOR CIA FROM COIT GARRY TO PRISCILLA TITLE LETTER “I AM TRANSFERRING TO ANOTHER SECTION AND GIVING NAME OF ANOTHER PERSON TO CONTACT IN THE FUTURE DATE 06/18/65 PAGES 1 SUBJECTS
RIF#: 104-10135-10092   (06/18/65)   CIA#: 80T01357A

 

Are we there yet? Part I

© 2017  jfkforum.com

Marina Oswald Porter: To Forget Is Not To Forgive – The Washington …
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1977/10/13/marina-oswald-porter-to-forget-is-not-to-forgive/f79abe90-393b-4f64-98b5-041804c4b36b/
Oct 13, 1977 – Marina Oswald Porter, hesitant and almost expressionless, held a press … the book’s author Priscilla Johnson McMillan in 1964, explained again that she … Harper & Row editor-in-chief Buz Wyeth cut the press conference off.

 

Priscilla is asked by HSCA counsel in Feb., 1978, about her Harper editor’s (Bus Wyeth) reaction to the 12 year delay of her book…. (Marion “Buzz” Wyeth worked for Harper & Row since 1956) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95330#relPageId=43 Next Page:

 

The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a Global President https://www.google.com/#safe=off&tbm=bks&q=george+bush+bemis+devine&spf=1500536624714 Jeffrey A. Engel – 2011 – ‎Preview – ‎More editions The Making of a Global President Jeffrey A. Engel. “I brought home a picture … Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future—very thoughtful of them.5 All I know now is to do the best job one can here. There is no credit in …”

The class of ’44 were only ten, the other ten had gone off to larger schools but were not forgotten.

The Class Will, signed by the ten graduating members of Allendale-Columbia School, class of 1944….
The original 20 were classmates as long as grades K-9. Peter Dryer departed for Choate and Hawley Ward for St. Paul’s …..

Meanwhile, in Concord, NH, Priscilla and Marina’s future book editor gained a classmate and evidently Buz Wyeth and Hawley Ward became friends!

Wyeth was a member of St. Paul’s class of ’44 and Hawley Ward joined Wyeth’s class, transferring from Allendale-Columbia school…
https://rbscp.lib.rochester.edu/1183 Title: FRANK HAWLEY WARD FAMILY PAPERS …………… Her first son, Hawley Werner Ward, known to the family as Mike, was born in 1927, after which she spent the period of February to April in Bermuda. Her second son, Addison Werner Ward, was born in 1930. Hawley Ward’s daughter Elizabeth married John Adams in 1933. They had two daughters. The two Ward boys attended Allendale School in Rochester, and then were sent to St. Paul’s School in Concord, N.H. Hawley began in the Fall of 1941, and Addison began in the Fall of 1942. Hawley Werner Ward entered the U.S. Navy in the Summer of 1944, and served two years. He was trained in radio electronics, and was eventually sent to the Pacific after the declaration of peace. Both Hawley and Addison attended Princeton University, Hawley entering in the Fall of 1946, and Addison in the Fall of 1947.
Meet the esteemed editor of the Allendale-Columbia School, class of 1944 Yearbook.. Nineteen years later and within two weeks of the final time he looked into Oswald’s eyes, DeMohrenschildt was looking into these eyes. Devine interrupted a long hiatus from CIA to meet George DeM. and Clemard Charles and Devine reported 8 additional contacts with DeMohrenschildt through the following month.

Devine went on to attend M.I.T. and, just a few months later was residing in the Sigma Chi fraternity house with Garry Coit and fifteen other fraternity mates.

Peter Dryer, another of the not forgotten ten on Devine’s list in the yearbook, was the brother of Joseph F. Dryer, Jr., who met DeMohrenschildt in separate NYC meeting, but on the very same day as Devine, on 25 April, 1963 !

Peter Dryer partnered with brother Joseph in Cuba and then in Guatemala and was also a member of Wyeth’s 1948 Princeton class.

In January, 1964, Garry Coit happened to become the CIA contact of Priscilla Johnson….

Marion Sims “Buz” Wyeth had become by 1949, close enough to Devine’s former classmate to invite Hawley Ward to be an usher in his wedding party.:

After the name of usher Hawley Ward is the name of William Meyer, brother of Cord Meyer, Jr. Their cousin, S. Willetts Meyer was a member of three interesting wedding parties.: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,14376.msg508919.html#msg508919

1977….Billy Joe Lord writes to Pres. Carter that he works for Jim Allison in Midland
and Henry Hurt told Lord that he asked a friend, a Mr. Beamiss, head of republican party
in state of VA and owner of string of hotels, how to pressure Lord….FBI response was to
add Jim as first name of Bemiss and then actually not investigate. Bush close friend Fitzgerald,
Gerry Bemiss had meeting with Tom Devine in 1975 to determine Bush political future, per
Bush’s own book, published much later. Bemiss headed Ford election campaign finance in 1976
and owned hotels on Blue Ridge Pkwy. via his family, Virginia Skyline Corp.

Pretty obvious everything Billy Joe Lord related in his Feb., 1977 letter to Pres. Carter was
true. It is possible the letter was intended to distance Jay Epstein from CIA, IOW Lord was
actually cooperating with Hurt and Epstein in a hangout, but that is not our concern.

Bush said trust Ford that Oswald acted alone. Okay, fine….explain DeMohrenschildt, Devine,
Garry Coit, Joseph Dryer, Priscilla editor Wyeth, Lord’s 1977 letter, and connections of Bush
to Ed Hooker, Hooker and S Willetts Meyer, Wyeth connections to Devine’s schoolmate, Hawley Ward who transferred to St. Paul’s in Concord, NH into Wyeth’s class of 1944, to the Meyer boys, and neighbors DeMohrenschildt in-laws, the Sharpies, and Wyeth’s 12 years’ patience with Priscilla.

What did Priscilla intend in HSCA testimony about her father being accidental suicide? Why
did Priscilla use her CIA cousin, David Davenport as a safehouse for Marina and his friend, Jerome Hastings, who was Clark Clifford’s uncle as Marina chauffeur and body guard?

Our Man in Haiti: George de Mohrenschildt and the CIA in the Nightmare Republic – Joan Mellen

….In March 1963, the powerful 902nd Military Intelligence Group referred to George de Moherenschildt as “a business associate of Vice-President Lyndon Johnson.”
[b] On April, 19, the de Mohrenschildts left for New York.[/b]

When he found his way to Washington, D.C., de Mohrenschilst met, not with Lyndon Johnson, but with Johnson’s assistant for National Security Affairs, Air Force Colonel Howard Burris. A native Texan, Burris was an intelligence officer who had been involved in CIA’s 1953 coup against Iranian president Mohammed Mossadegh. He was an intimate of Richard Helms and of General Charles Cabell, right hand man of Allen Dulles, and brother of Dallas mayor Earle Cabell, who was in office at the time of the assassination of President Kennedy later in the year. An oilman by profession, Burris had created the Cuban-Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust Company, only to have his Cuban oil properties to be confiscated by Fidel Castro.

Clemard Joseph Charles departed from Haiti for Newy York on April 23. Upon his arrival, he was interviewed by a CIA informant who is identified in the CIA document describing their meeting only as a “former journalist.” Whith no fear that his words would get back to Papa Doc, Charles confided to the informant that heas in a strong position to become head of a provisional government once Duvalier was removed. Duvalier was likely to unleash a reign of terror and had to be stopped before he liquidated his opposition, Charles volunteered.

Speaking as if he were aware that this “journalist” was a direct pipeline to CIA, and that CIA was motivated by fear that Haiti might become a second Cuba, Charles added that Duvalier was about to accept aid from the Soviet bloc. In contrast, he would establish a democratic Haiti, one “friendly toward the Unites States, and save the country from a Castro-type Communist takeover.”

Charles then boasted of his “wide range of support among the peasantry, anti-Duvalier army officers, intellectuals, journalists and businessmen.” Should he not be appointed provisional president, Charles said, he might accept the post of Secretary of Finance and Economic Affairs.

In New York, Chalres me with kenaf partner, Joe Dryer. Charles had sent a limousine to the hotel to pick up Dryer and his partner, Clark Cassidy. Dryer recounts that he and Cassidy both were fond of Charles. Charles had a secretary wwith him, a woman who, as Dryer knew through his own intellligence connections, had been planted on Charles by CIA.

In the late 1970’s, Dryer told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that Charles had “many connections” with the Central Intelligence Agency. He added that George de Mohrenschildt had “some intelligence connection,” although he professed not to know with which country. It seems clear that CIA held both Clemard Joseph Charles and George de Mohrenschildt within its radar, destined for some role in Haiti’s political future….

….To Dryer now, in 1963, Charles described George de Mohrenschildt as his “business associate,” adding that de Mohrenschildt had an appointment with Vice President Johnson.

A generous man, Dryer supplied Clemard Joseph Charles with some useful letters of introduction, testaments to his character. ….to Senator Kenneth Keating….. to Democratic Congressman Paul Rogers of Florida…..

Dryer had his own bank conduct a credit check on George de Mohrenschildt, with the understanding that the name of the client initiating the inquiry “remain confidential.” The bank official however, reported to Special Agent William W. Hamilton of the New York FBI field office. He described the person checking on de Mohrenschildt only as “a firm dealing in the import and export of fibers.”

Dryer denies that he arranged for a credit check de Mohrenschildt, but given his concern for Charles, and his doubts about de Mohrenschildt, it seem that it could only have been he, a businessman “dealing in the import and export of fibers.”

The ensuing credit report, issuing from the Republic National Bank in Dallas, arrived on June 14. It was “favorable concerning de Mohresnschildt’s credit.” The evidence suggests that, along the way, Dryer had confided what he knew about Clemard Joseph Charles and George de Mohrenschildt to Army intelligence. Dryer’s views, as outlined above, appear almost verbatim, in the released files of 90 Deuce.

It is April 25, 1963 at the Knickerbocker Club[/b] at 2 East 62 Street, immediately east of Fifth Avenue in New York City. Two CIA operatives are conferring in the club’s library: C. Frank Stone, III, who is responsible for CIA’s WUBRINY operations, and Thomas J. Devine, CIA’s principal asset on the project. Devine had been a CIA staff employee, who ostensibly “resigned” in 1953 to “go into private business.”…..Devine’s partner, John Train, a long-time CIA asset, was a founder of the CIA-sponsored Paris Review. …

After I discovered Tom Devine’s “Gone but not forgotten,” list in his yearbook and saw Peter Dryer’s name, I contacted Joan Mellen…..

 

 

Marilyn Sitzman propped up Zapruder & his camera on the pedestal and FBI didn’t interview her….

 

At long last, do we even know what questions to ask? How do we know to even ask that question or what the correct answer is? How many Russians entwined in the official story of a lone nut, a magic bullet, and a reluctant, accidental Russian immigrant home movie maker are too many?

Meet the family.:

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=55322375

The Russian immigrant grandparents, grandfather’s obit and graves at above link.

Frank – The Center for Volga German Studies at Concordia University

cvgs.cu-portland.edu › Settlements along the Volga › Original Colonies

Jun 20, 2014 – In an edict dated 26 February 1768, Frank was given the Russian name of Medeveditskii …

The heretofore unknown federal government employed aunt.:

Larrie Schmidt and friends….merely coincidental, or….????

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/6397-larrie-schmidt/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-257311

The emigration from Germany to Russia in the years 1763 to 1862

Karl Stumpp – 1973 – 1018 pages – Snippet view

All net proceeds from the sale of the books shall revert to and be at the disposal of the American Historical Society of Germans from Russia and the Landsmannschaft der Deutschen aus Rußland in Germany for the purpose of heritage and cultural research. The contributors have, in this manner, accomplished two worthwhile objectives. 1. They have made possible the publication of the book. 2. They have indirectly given their support to the cultural research activities. HONORARY CONTRIBUTORS LIST $ 28.00-$ 40.00 John Alles, SanGabriel, California Capt. N. C. Altenhof, Moosejaw, Saskatchewan, Mr. & Mrs. Carl Amen, Loveland, Colorado Miss Ruth M. Amen, Lincoln, Nebraska B. A. Anheliger, Holdfast, Saskatchewan, Canada Myron E. Anderson, Greeley, Colorado Assumption Abbey, Richardton, North Dakota John Baab, Berrien Springs, Michigan Dean C. Batt, Marion, Kansas Mr. & Mrs. Edwin A. Beisel, Saginaw,Michigan Mr. & Mrs. Howard O. Berg, Devils Lake, N. D. Robert H. Billigmeier, Santa Barbara, California Dr. Sc Mrs. Norman Bitter, Fresno, California Bill & Elsa (Silbernagel) Burley, Denver, Colo. Beverly J. Burres, Fresno, California George …

Background on William M Burley, III’s wife, Elsa Silbernagel :

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16711entry257292

And…..was Marilyn Sitzman aware of or complicit with Larrie Schmidt?

Officer Tippit in line of duty, 1956 shooting of Leonard Garland

It is not possible to determine if the routine complaint Tippit and Hankins responded to at Club 80 was a disturbance by extremely drunk Leonard Garland or something else that actually brought the officers into the Club. (From maryferrell link, below.)

It is clear that the FBI was not seeking Garland before 1957, IOW, some months after his death, unless it was related to James’s reference to a Las Vegas crime investigation.:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10096&relPageId=125

Garland is buried in the state in which he was born, Arkansas.:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=66566613

In a post on the “OswaldsMother” blog, George observed that the shooting of Leonard Garland was not investigated by the DPD.
(Death Certificate, no autopsy )
I can add that no autopsy was performed before Garland’s body was shipped to Clarksville, Arkanasas on  6 Sept., 1956.
The Dallas authorities recorded his birth year as 1923 but birth records indicate it was 1922
Garland was from a large family and the brother closest in age to him is buried here.:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=99604866
(Exploring the “man exacts revenge for the death of his kid brother,” angle, as no one else has done it.)

There were at least one even older and two much younger brothers.